Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 26, 2017, 12:52:00 AM
75132 Posts in 1768 Topics by 359 Members
Latest Member: nic4real
Home Help Login Register
TalkLeft Discussion Forums  |  Topics  |  Duke Players' Discredited Sexual Assault Case  |  Archived Duke Players' Discredited Sexual Assault Case Topics  |  Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer  (Read 34547 times)
inmyhumbleopinion
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4758

"I thought he was banned permanently too" OM OM OM


WWW
Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #120 on: November 11, 2006, 07:59:13 PM »

Quote
Yolanda Haynes, who stopped working for Hillsborough's adults-only Platinum Club in July, said the woman had to be dragged and carried from the nightspot because she passed out inside.

Haynes also said it wasn't unusual for the exotic dancer to pass out during her stint at the club from January until March.

"It was just constant, every night," she said. "I don't know how many times she fell out on stage."

Did "Fats Thomas" mention the accuser falling down during her performances?

I recall he told Ed Bradley she didn't seemed inmpaired.

Does regular as pie mean she fell down during her performance as usual?

When she stole the taxi cab from a cabbie, she was also described as behaving strangely, hiding under the table and refusing to come out.



This isn't behaving strangely, according to Yolanda, it's how she constantly performs.  I wonder if Fats mentioned that she constantly "falls out" on stage  to Ed Bradley, Inside Edition, or Joe Neff?
Logged

QT
lskinner
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 407


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #121 on: November 11, 2006, 08:02:07 PM »

Hey thanks for the applause.  :taking a bow:  
Logged
barry
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 899


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #122 on: November 11, 2006, 08:08:14 PM »

Quote
Yolanda Haynes, who stopped working for Hillsborough's adults-only Platinum Club in July, said the woman had to be dragged and carried from the nightspot because she passed out inside.

Haynes also said it wasn't unusual for the exotic dancer to pass out during her stint at the club from January until March.

"It was just constant, every night," she said. "I don't know how many times she fell out on stage."

Did "Fats Thomas" mention the accuser falling down during her performances?

I recall he told Ed Bradley she didn't seemed inmpaired.

Does regular as pie mean she fell down during her performance as usual?

When she stole the taxi cab from a cabbie, she was also described as behaving strangely, hiding under the table and refusing to come out.



This isn't behaving strangely, according to Yolanda, it's how she constantly performs.  I wonder if Fats mentioned that she constantly "falls out" on stage  to Ed Bradley, Inside Edition, or Joe Neff?

"It was just constant, every night," she said. "I don't know how many times she fell out on stage."

Could just be an exaggeration. Perhaps she was referring to the nights before March 13th. I don't think Fat's was ever questioned, at least in detail, about those nights.

Logged
Tortmaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 860


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #123 on: November 11, 2006, 10:30:24 PM »

I think about two months ago I said "this couldnt get any worse from a prosecution standpoint". Since then probably four or five "bombshells" have come out to show what a joke this case is.

  At this point does anybody think there is ANYTHING in the way of evidence  that can come out that would cause Nifong to drop the case? [/b]

No.  It's clear by now to anybody with any critical thinking skills that the accusation is a hoax.  I am reminded of a discussion I had on the CTV message board in which I compared the accusation to Bigfoot.  One pro-prosecution poster angrily demanded proof that there is no such thing as Bigfoot.

Quote
I think if there was a videotape of Precious scheming with Cousin ITT and her lawyer about how to lie to get money from the white boys , it would be spun as "a hurdle the prosecution must overcome"

I'm sure that the potbangers would explain it away.

Quote
 BTW; I feel there is a 0% chance of conviction and  5% chance of a hung jury.

I would go with 0 and 1/100,000.

Quote
Nifongs election could be explained by many blacks "sticking it to whitey".

Also, a lot of people surely voted democrat without giving it much thought.  Or were given "palm cards" to follow.

I would agree with everything you said, oh wise Iskinner. But didn't one of the Nifong-crazies shove the following article in your face to prove their point:

NATIONAL ENQUIRER, JUNE 9, 2006

THEY SAY I RAPED A BIGFOOT

NE. Missoula. Only visible as a silhouette in shadow, the young man in the orange hunting vest rocked nervously in his chair answering questions about the recent charges leveled against him by the local prosecutor. “I never had no sex with that there Bigfoot,” he said. “I never done even seen me a Bigfoot critter before.”

A radical group of animal rights activists have begun protesting outside the courthouse in the village square, having taken to banging trout fry pans and campfire pots to bring attention to the cause of Yeti rape. There has been reports of considerable tension in the area between area hunters and the local Sasquatch population.     

A number of professors from a neighboring liberal arts community college have signed a petition denouncing the rape as “not good.” National commentators such as Nancy Grace and Wendy Murphy have joined in denouncing the alleged rape. On her nightly CNN cable show, Grace said that DNA is only found in approximately 80 percent of Yeti rape cases. 

Although no Bigfoot or human DNA was recovered in this case, the local prosecutor, Wilbur Dipthong, running in next-month’s general election against an Anti-Sasquatch candidate, noted that, “Before such testing became available,  it was customary to railroad… er … convict local men of Yeti and Sasquatch rape the good old-fashioned way ….”

_________________________________________

I think there is a big difference between voting for a candidate who represents your party and who claims they are looking out for your best interests and sending 3 innocent boys to prison for years. Given the exit polling on the case, and with the public becoming more and more familiar with the railroad job in this case, Mike Nifong will have to dismiss. On top of that, you have the unpredictability of the false accuser and the threat of perjury and suborning perjury. No chance of conviction, as it won't get that far. And if it does, no chance of conviction.   

As for the latest revelations, WE knew the bruises were there before the dance, because we saw them in the pictures. It is nice that the public is catching up on this. Also, WE knew that Precious had the propensity for curling up into a little ball in stressful situations. It happened at the strip club in 2002, it happened at Kroger's and at the Duke party, and, now, everyone knows that it is apparently part of her regular "act."

If Nifong were to try to raise any issue involving "bruising" at a trial,  the defense would parade these witnesses out one-by-one to testify about Precious' regular "act." There goes any prejudicial value Nifong hoped to get out of testimony from Travis that his baby was beaten up or out of pictures of bruises.       


Logged

"If anyone out there still believes David Evans, Reade Seligmann, or Collin Finnerty raped a black stripper on March 13, 2006, you’re willfully deaf and blind. And stupid." -- LaShawn Barber
weezie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 656


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #124 on: November 11, 2006, 10:35:10 PM »

"Wilbur Dipthong" good one...
Logged
sceptical
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #125 on: November 11, 2006, 10:50:33 PM »

I still don't have a definite answer as to why Nifong has: 1) refused to interview the accuser or the defendants or Kim Roberts;
2) has not read at least some of the motions and case file; and 3) led the police investigation by avoiding a throrough investigation and telling them to do an improper line-up.

Is his attempt at deniability because:

A) He is incompetent and lazy

B) He is afraid of being called as a witness so he can't personally try the case

C) He realizes that has has no case and is trying to insulate himself from criminal and civil charges involving prosecutorial miscondust (he can blame the police, the accuser and plead ignorance).

What do you think??

Logged
LONGTABBER
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1172



Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #126 on: November 11, 2006, 11:16:31 PM »

I still don't have a definite answer as to why Nifong has: 1) refused to interview the accuser or the defendants or Kim Roberts;
2) has not read at least some of the motions and case file; and 3) led the police investigation by avoiding a throrough investigation and telling them to do an improper line-up.

Is his attempt at deniability because:

A) He is incompetent and lazy

B) He is afraid of being called as a witness so he can't personally try the case

C) He realizes that has has no case and is trying to insulate himself from criminal and civil charges involving prosecutorial miscondust (he can blame the police, the accuser and plead ignorance).

What do you think??

I go with option D because his role as "investigator" alone ( whether he talked to her or not) can get him called as a witness ( not saying thats not a valid reason but there are 2 ways he can be called) and now with him being the "lead' investigator- he has no real way to insulate himself now.

My personal opinion is that he is sitting on it to "read" the defense and will save it until the last minute- See, first of all, Nifong KNOWS whats in the discovery ( obviously since he gives it to them)- what he DOESNT know ( he may have 'ideas" but doesnt know) is what the DEFENSE has uncovered ( and he wont until a few weeks before trial)  I think he is sitting on that because its the only hole card he has.


What i see him doing now is akin to "probing" enemy lines- he is metering out his discovery and seeing what motions they file- he will try to read their strengths and weaknesses from that- then near the last moment he will "meet" with her- she is going to "remember' some detail and then he can have something then.

Now, do i believe he hasnt talked to her already- not a chance- he has to have

I'm expecting him to eventually have an "ah ha" moment and find 'something" ( my personal thoughts- planted or fabricated) to give him some teeth

Here is the simple truth here- Nifong MUST know theres no evidence in this case yet he is going forth and its obvious theres a REASON he is sitting on this 'interview' with her so what would he GAIN by doing it- the only thing that makes sense is some last minute 'hail mary" evidence.

If he were going to drop this case- he would have by now, If the AV was going to bolt- she would have done it by now
Logged
helloitsme
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 101


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #127 on: November 11, 2006, 11:24:50 PM »

Quote
If the AV was going to bolt- she would have done it by now
Maybe, unless Nifong has some leverage on her.
I keep thinking about Nifong's remark about "her seeing her children".
Have the children been taken away from her?
Could Nifong have threatened to take the kids away?
Any word on the kids from the chickens?
Logged
LONGTABBER
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1172



Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #128 on: November 11, 2006, 11:44:21 PM »

Quote
If the AV was going to bolt- she would have done it by now
Maybe, unless Nifong has some leverage on her.
I keep thinking about Nifong's remark about "her seeing her children".
Have the children been taken away from her?
Could Nifong have threatened to take the kids away?
Any word on the kids from the chickens?

The last word on them was they were staying with family and she sees them on occasion ( this was when she was "on tour") but that information is several months old now

I would think they were NOT taken away ( or threatened to) because that would further damage her in the eyes of the people ( and find its way into court too) and thats the LAST thing Nifong would do- that would be like shooting himself in the other foot

There was a rumor way back ( first of summer if memory serves) about a 'falling out" with the AV and her parents over their interviews and how they hurt her case and she is keeping them away from them to "punish" them but I havent heard anything about it for a while
Logged
DHaze
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 457


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #129 on: November 12, 2006, 01:31:51 AM »

I going to tell you what I think on this because I have a very much different view from most of the people who have posted about what Nifong is going to do.

He is going to put the FA on the stand and have her testify.  That's it.  He has nothing to lose, and he can say he was just taking her accusation seriously.  I think we are making this too complicated.  Nifong is not a complicated man.
But this little uncomplicated man does have the ability to put at least one of the Duke boys in jail -- to satisfy the "community" if nothing else.

I understand all the legal logic, but to me, it is still possible.
Logged
Tortmaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 860


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #130 on: November 12, 2006, 01:36:56 AM »

I think that he or the DPD initially thought that the accuser's stories were bogus and thus made no attempt to corroborate them.  If they had tried, they would have received no confirmation from Kim.  I believe that they thought the accuser was probably impaired from alcohol or drugs and was unable to remember exactly what had happened.  Nifong was convinced (or wanted to be convinced) that "something" had happened (and the something could be as straightforward as consenual sex; that would still help Nifong with his polical concerns)and believed that the DNA results would "solve" the case.  I don't think that either Nifong or the DPD suspected that no one had sex with the accuser.  When the DNA test came back negative, he didn't know what to do.  He had already inflamed the community with his comments and had no way out. 

      This all makes sense to me. I am very positive that DPD initially felt the false accuser's story was a lie. Officer Shelton was extremely suspicious of Precious when she failed to appropriately respond to the ammonia capsule. Then, he reported that she had recanted. There is no doubt in my mind that the police band radio traffic that night talked about a false accusation, and that information was shared with the Duke University Police.

     I also agree that LE thought she was drunk. Again, as Officer Shelton reported, she was "passed out drunk" at Krogers. I am convinced that Gottlieb made this heinous lie into a case. I think it would be interesting to follow the case in the Durham PD as it reached Gottlieb's desk. No search of the crime scene for two days! I hope the book writers pay special attention to this time period at the police station. No cop with any sense believed her. But a cop with a vindictive hatred of Dukies might use her.

     Gottlieb didn't have to work too hard to convince Mike Nifong about the political merits of the situation. My guess is that Nifong was too lazy to read the actual police reports and fell in with Gottlieb's belief that DNA would provide a quick result (and plea deal). This was based upon Gottlieb telling Nifong that there were no condoms used by the alleged "rapists," and that the false accuser hadn't had sex for a week prior to the Duke party (or so Precious claimed at that time).

     Thus, I think the "investigation" was shut down waiting return of DNA and identifications. After that, the "investigation" was shut down because Nifong realized there was absolutely nothing to investigate. It was at this moment that Mike Nifong's heart turned black and filled with gangrenous pus. As you suggest, "He had already inflamed the community with his comments and had no way out." But, a less black-hearted prosecutor would have looked at the file, called in the false accuser, and then dismissed the case, election be damned.

     Now, LE and Nifong faced a quandry. Any effort to continue an investigation would turn up additional exculpatory evidence. This evidence, in turn, would have to be provided in discovery to the defense. The defense, for their part, would attach the exculpatory evidence to a motion making the Durham justice system look even more retarded.  

     Since the DNA came back so poorly for Nifong, he has only been looking to discredit defense witnesses, including the whole Elmo fiasco and Linwood Wilson's effort at some type of rebuttal to the bouncer's statements with Dr. O's affidavit. It is nice to see that the fruits of thier "investigation" have soured on them. The prosecution's inability to continue with an investigation is a good thing for the defense, as all the defense investigators will ever find is exculpatory evidence (since there was no rape). Moreover, what they find will be a surprise to Nifong. Exhibit 1 - Statement and Video from Bouncer. Exhibit 2 - Statement from former Platinum Manager. More exhibits to follow!
    
Logged

"If anyone out there still believes David Evans, Reade Seligmann, or Collin Finnerty raped a black stripper on March 13, 2006, you’re willfully deaf and blind. And stupid." -- LaShawn Barber
fillintheblanks
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130


Don't Tread On Me


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #131 on: November 12, 2006, 01:43:02 AM »

I agree, Newport.

And after the trial (i.e., after preening himself in front of his electing constituents by allowing AV to have her day in court), Nifong can spread his tail coverts, strut self-importantly about, and coo that the "divisions" within the sanctuary are no more.

The Peacock of Durham!
Logged
Tortmaster
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 860


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #132 on: November 12, 2006, 01:48:15 AM »

I going to tell you what I think on this because I have a very much different view from most of the people who have posted about what Nifong is going to do.

He is going to put the FA on the stand and have her testify.  That's it.  He has nothing to lose, and he can say he was just taking her accusation seriously.  I think we are making this too complicated.  Nifong is not a complicated man.
But this little uncomplicated man does have the ability to put at least one of the Duke boys in jail -- to satisfy the "community" if nothing else.

I understand all the legal logic, but to me, it is still possible.

DHaze: What would you do if you were in the jury room deciding the Duke case after final arguments and there were one or two "holdouts" on acquittal? I try to believe that I would not break a nose or otherwise get violent, but I can assure you that I would argue vehemently. I know you would do the same. I will relent and say it is "possible" for a hung jury if all of the following occurs:

(1) Defense loses all substantial motions (especially lineup motion);
(2) Defense loses on change of venue issue;
(3) Mike Nifong files a motion requesting county funds to pay $150,000.00 for a jury consulting firm; and
(4) Hell freezes over.    
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 01:49:55 AM by Tortmaster » Logged

"If anyone out there still believes David Evans, Reade Seligmann, or Collin Finnerty raped a black stripper on March 13, 2006, you’re willfully deaf and blind. And stupid." -- LaShawn Barber
sceptical
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 347


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #133 on: November 12, 2006, 09:13:56 AM »

I think that he or the DPD initially thought that the accuser's stories were bogus and thus made no attempt to corroborate them.  If they had tried, they would have received no confirmation from Kim.  I believe that they thought the accuser was probably impaired from alcohol or drugs and was unable to remember exactly what had happened.  Nifong was convinced (or wanted to be convinced) that "something" had happened (and the something could be as straightforward as consenual sex; that would still help Nifong with his polical concerns)and believed that the DNA results would "solve" the case.  I don't think that either Nifong or the DPD suspected that no one had sex with the accuser.  When the DNA test came back negative, he didn't know what to do.  He had already inflamed the community with his comments and had no way out. 

      This all makes sense to me. I am very positive that DPD initially felt the false accuser's story was a lie. Officer Shelton was extremely suspicious of Precious when she failed to appropriately respond to the ammonia capsule. Then, he reported that she had recanted. There is no doubt in my mind that the police band radio traffic that night talked about a false accusation, and that information was shared with the Duke University Police.

     I also agree that LE thought she was drunk. Again, as Officer Shelton reported, she was "passed out drunk" at Krogers. I am convinced that Gottlieb made this heinous lie into a case. I think it would be interesting to follow the case in the Durham PD as it reached Gottlieb's desk. No search of the crime scene for two days! I hope the book writers pay special attention to this time period at the police station. No cop with any sense believed her. But a cop with a vindictive hatred of Dukies might use her.

     Gottlieb didn't have to work too hard to convince Mike Nifong about the political merits of the situation. My guess is that Nifong was too lazy to read the actual police reports and fell in with Gottlieb's belief that DNA would provide a quick result (and plea deal). This was based upon Gottlieb telling Nifong that there were no condoms used by the alleged "rapists," and that the false accuser hadn't had sex for a week prior to the Duke party (or so Precious claimed at that time).

     Thus, I think the "investigation" was shut down waiting return of DNA and identifications. After that, the "investigation" was shut down because Nifong realized there was absolutely nothing to investigate. It was at this moment that Mike Nifong's heart turned black and filled with gangrenous pus. As you suggest, "He had already inflamed the community with his comments and had no way out." But, a less black-hearted prosecutor would have looked at the file, called in the false accuser, and then dismissed the case, election be damned.

     Now, LE and Nifong faced a quandry. Any effort to continue an investigation would turn up additional exculpatory evidence. This evidence, in turn, would have to be provided in discovery to the defense. The defense, for their part, would attach the exculpatory evidence to a motion making the Durham justice system look even more retarded.  

     Since the DNA came back so poorly for Nifong, he has only been looking to discredit defense witnesses, including the whole Elmo fiasco and Linwood Wilson's effort at some type of rebuttal to the bouncer's statements with Dr. O's affidavit. It is nice to see that the fruits of thier "investigation" have soured on them. The prosecution's inability to continue with an investigation is a good thing for the defense, as all the defense investigators will ever find is exculpatory evidence (since there was no rape). Moreover, what they find will be a surprise to Nifong. Exhibit 1 - Statement and Video from Bouncer. Exhibit 2 - Statement from former Platinum Manager. More exhibits to follow!
    

Great post!

Tortmaster, you have expressed with much more clarity and expanded upon some of the thoughts I had proposed in an old thread "Were the Duke 3 "Framed," and Who Led the Frame-up?' Your scenario is the best one to explain the early days of the investigation and the lack of follow-through. I also believe that Gottlieb played a major role in hatching the hoax. While I hope there will not be a trial, it would almost be worth it to see Gottlieb on the stand facing Cheshire, Osborn et al.
Logged
momtothree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 285


Re: Bombshell Revelations regarding accuser by another dancer
« Reply #134 on: November 12, 2006, 01:45:37 PM »

Great post, Tortmaster.

Your analysis of Gottlieb's role seems right on target.

I see the wording of the PC afficdavit in the March 16 search warrant as the most striking evidence of Gottlieb's initial role in shaping the Hoax.

Most notably, in the language of the affidavit and in direct conflict with what we know of the AV's various statements that night, Kim is changed from a perpetrator into somewhere between a bystander and fellow victim and the amount of the stolen money is reduced to coincide with what Precious was paid by the players, to hide the kind of earnings that Precious made from all her activities that day and night, and to play down questions about her profession while enhancing her credibility.

The story was revised and "cleaned up" to get rid of the racial ambiguity of one black woman robbing and possibly aiding and abetting the rape of another and to diffuse questions about the accuser's character.

These were not minor changes.  They were thought out and deliberate.  And Gottlieb, rather than Himan, his junior underling, had to be the person who did it.  Moreover, though Nifong would soon be involved and calling the shots, this malicious act of revision on March 16 seems too early to have Nifong's finger prints on it.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Advertise Here