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Author Topic: The Book: Until Proven Innocent  (Read 15924 times)
wumhenry
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2007, 11:37:50 AM »


Sure wumhenry, guess they should have added that infamous "on information and belief" to qualify the accusations they were making, similar to the NC NAACP 82 points, based on "media reports".  As far as driving away the good posters here, my opinion (and note I state this as an opinion, unlike this book), is that some posters left because they wanted a place to discuss the case only from a pro-defense point of view.  I recall that there were accusations in the original topic when this originally came out that  were also referring to  certain sexual preferences, at least they left that part out.

I was focussing on the assertions re IMHO's affiliation and place of residence because those are what she focussed on when she accused the authors of lying.  If challenged on those points they could give a much better answer than "information and belief": they could cite IMHO's relevant comment in TL.  Some commenters left TL after saying that IMHO (or IMHO and PB) were ruining this forum with their "trolling", so it was fair for Johnson and Taylor to say that IMHO drove people away.  I do think they exaggerate the effect of those desertions on the discourse here -- but given the peripheral relevance of the statement to the authors' narrative this is a very small nit to pick.  It's a darn good book, IMO.
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MarkRougemont
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2007, 12:19:55 PM »

wumhenry,
   It was a cheap shot at imho and the posters that remained here, in my opinion.  I have seen many glowing reviews of this book and you said it is "darn good".  I have also seen some critiism of the way it protrays the Black press and the African American leadership in Durham as well as some comments about too much of an emphasis on  Broadhead and the group of 88.  Do you think that any of this critisism is justified?

  To be fair, I should not have said I will not read the book.  I'll read it and Cash's book as well. When I get a copy of UPI, I will move it up my reading list and let you know.  I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.
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wumhenry
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2007, 03:05:09 PM »

wumhenry,
   It was a cheap shot at imho and the posters that remained here, in my opinion.  I have seen many glowing reviews of this book and you said it is "darn good".  I have also seen some critiism of the way it protrays the Black press and the African American leadership in Durham as well as some comments about too much of an emphasis on  Broadhead and the group of 88.  Do you think that any of this critisism is justified?

I agree that it's too harsh on IMHO, but that's a small point in a hefty book that many more-important fish to fry.  AFAIK there's no reason to accuse the authors of deliberate deceit in this regard.

I'm not qualified, at least at present, to opine on the merits of the criticism of the book's portrayal of the Black press and AA leadership in Durham.  Haven't done the homework.

The book is not entirely fair to Brodhead, IMO.  I'm inclined to agree with the authors that he didn't do right by Pressler and was too lenient with rogue faculty, but I don't agree with them that he was too stand-offish in the early phase of the crisis (i.e., prior to the publication of MyFayden's infamous email) or that he shouldn't have cancelled the lacrosse season.

To my disappointment, the book is journalistic in format rather than scholarly; there are no footnotes.  Sources are usually identified or self-evident, but not always.

I recommend it despite these shortcomings because I think the book's merits outweigh its deficiencies.

Quote
I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.

Thanks for saying so.  I can say the same for you.
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Trinity Rez
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2007, 06:48:16 PM »

Hey Mark, is the history books too harsh on the Nazis or Klan?

I do not think the book is harsh enough on the idiots that voted for Nifong in Nov or May. If it was not for ignorant racist, like the Durham black voters and far left nuts who voted for an unethical criminal DA, then Nifong would have never acted in the manner in which he did.

Should we not call out prejudice mindset even when it is a PC protected class? What I am upset with is that these idiots are left to wreck havoc on the Durham community.

Look at the Black leaders current behavior. Endorsing an obvious mentally deranged racist like Victoria Peterson. Apparently none of the idiots in Durham have learned a thing from their racist behavior.

Maybe 30 million will make these low lives think twice about viewing events through race. However, I will not count on it. You just can not change ignorance.
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MarkRougemont
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2007, 09:41:55 AM »

Hey Mark, is the history books too harsh on the Nazis or Klan?

I do not think the book is harsh enough on the idiots that voted for Nifong in Nov or May. If it was not for ignorant racist, like the Durham black voters and far left nuts who voted for an unethical criminal DA, then Nifong would have never acted in the manner in which he did.

Should we not call out prejudice mindset even when it is a PC protected class? What I am upset with is that these idiots are left to wreck havoc on the Durham community.

Look at the Black leaders current behavior. Endorsing an obvious mentally deranged racist like Victoria Peterson. Apparently none of the idiots in Durham have learned a thing from their racist behavior.

Maybe 30 million will make these low lives think twice about viewing events through race. However, I will not count on it. You just can not change ignorance.

Comparing how history will treat the Duke case  to that of the Nazis or Klan does not justify a response.

With Victoria Peterson you have a legit point.  It reminds me of how the people of NC and SC (and mostly white people) kept electing Jessie Helms and Strom Thurmond over and over and over again.  At some point common sense and embarrassment should change some votes, don't you think?

As far as the May primary, I don't feel it was far enough into the case to justify a claim of idiocy on the part of Durham voters.  And the November election had an encumbant Democrat running against a guy that said he wouldn't serve even if elected and a complete spoiler that should have withdrawn himself from the election if he was truly interested in "change".
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cpamba
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2007, 10:12:09 AM »


  To be fair, I should not have said I will not read the book.  I'll read it and Cash's book as well. When I get a copy of UPI, I will move it up my reading list and let you know.  I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.

How cute that you think Cash is actually going to write a book.   
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MarkRougemont
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2007, 11:13:33 AM »


  To be fair, I should not have said I will not read the book.  I'll read it and Cash's book as well. When I get a copy of UPI, I will move it up my reading list and let you know.  I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.

How cute that you think Cash is actually going to write a book.   

I have a feeling that he will have  more about the blogs and discussion boards in his book.  Maybe you will get a mention or 2 regarding Talkleft....or the cave.
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Mr X
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is there no cave?..


Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2007, 12:06:50 PM »


  To be fair, I should not have said I will not read the book.  I'll read it and Cash's book as well. When I get a copy of UPI, I will move it up my reading list and let you know.  I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.

How cute that you think Cash is actually going to write a book.   

I have a feeling that he will have  more about the blogs and discussion boards in his book.  Maybe you will get a mention or 2 regarding Talkleft....or the cave.

wonder if Duke U. Press will be the publisher?
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MarkRougemont
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2007, 12:24:28 PM »


  To be fair, I should not have said I will not read the book.  I'll read it and Cash's book as well. When I get a copy of UPI, I will move it up my reading list and let you know.  I know you believe in hearing both points of view as well.

How cute that you think Cash is actually going to write a book.   

I have a feeling that he will have  more about the blogs and discussion boards in his book.  Maybe you will get a mention or 2 regarding Talkleft....or the cave.

wonder if Duke U. Press will be the publisher?

I think its got a good chance to be an Oprah Book Club pick-as in guaranteed bestseller.
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Sydney Carton
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2007, 02:11:06 PM »

    I think its got a good chance to be an Oprah Book Club pick-as in guaranteed bestseller.

      But,Mark,Oprah got stuck last year with a work of fiction masquerading as a work of fact.She may think twice before being burned a second time.
      Still, if Crystal and Kim agree to  promote the book for Oprah with  a nationally televised exhibition  of their   full  two hour choreographed dance, Cash  might yet succeed  in reversing the tide of history.
  Don't  we all know  that there are members of the Duke English faculty who will  be only happy to provide the appropriate  blurbs concernning the author's perceptive analysis, his scintillating  style, his  enhightened ,trail-blazing, useage  of  purple ink?
   Houston Baker(if Crystal asked him)would certainly  agree to contribute an original  poem to be printed at the front of the volume.He would compose it in a special  original metre timed to correlate  with the beat of  high pipes  and  deep drums  so well-known to afficiandoes of Crystal's more sensitive  performances.
   With those truly great performers ,Pearl Primus  and Kathleen Dunham ,long gone,how can Oprah resist this opportunity,which Cash now offers her,to bring back the Black Arts under the tutelege  of the Duke 88 and Crystal  Mangum.
   
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Sydney Carton
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2008, 04:07:29 PM »

   The revised and expanded paperback version of "Until Proven Innocent" will be out on Sept.30th.
   This is a good buy and a must for any serious student of the case.
     http://www.amazon.com/Until-Proven-Innocent-Correctness-Injustices/dp/0312384866/ref=ed_oe_p/103-8264527-7899055

Until Proven Innocent: Political Correctness and the Shameful Injustices of the Duke Lacrosse Rape Case (Paperback)

by Stuart Taylor (Author), KC Johnson (Author)

List Price: $15.95
Price: $10.85 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
You Save: $5.10 (32%)

464pp.
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Sydney Carton
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2008, 03:55:28 PM »

   Amazon is now taking orders for the much expanded and revised paperback version of "Until Proven Innocent".Read it and find out what the people oover at the Reharmonizer blog are screaming about.
    http://www.amazon.com/Until-Proven-Innocent-Correctness-Injustices/dp/0312384866/ref=ed_oe_p
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Sydney Carton
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Re: The Book: Until Proven Innocent
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2009, 03:46:15 PM »

   http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123216000558792749.html

Books About Legal Cases
Alan Dershowitz praises these accounts of momentous legal cases

5. Until Proven Innocent
By Stuart Taylor Jr. and KC Johnson
Thomas Dunne, 2007

"Until Proven Innocent," an account of the Duke lacrosse case, should be ranked high among works that disprove the notion that those charged with serious crimes are invariably guilty and that those who are acquitted somehow beat the system. Stuart Taylor Jr. and KC Johnson pillory not only the prosecutor in the supposed sexual-assault case -- he was eventually disbarred after charges against the three players were dropped before going to trial -- but also the president of Duke University and those on his faculty who were willing to sacrifice innocent students as a bizarre form of racial reparation. The Duke case demonstrates how contemporary political correctness, run amok, can deform the legal system just as dramatically as other prejudices have in the past.

 Thanks abb.
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